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	<title>Comments on: Evolutionary Psychology, Feminism, and the Naturalist Fallacy</title>
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	<link>http://meatmachine.info/blog/2008/04/evolutionary-psychology-feminism-and-the-naturalist-fallacy/</link>
	<description>A mess of the mostly harmless.</description>
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		<title>By: Jono</title>
		<link>http://meatmachine.info/blog/2008/04/evolutionary-psychology-feminism-and-the-naturalist-fallacy/comment-page-1/#comment-107</link>
		<dc:creator>Jono</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2008 14:18:08 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I think the physiological differences between men and women are pretty well documented, and at this point don&#039;t really need to be reestablished. Nobody is going to challenge or dismiss the fact that women give birth and men don&#039;t.

I&#039;m not suggesting that these differences are irrelevant, or that we should pay no attention to them. In fact, I think we should give a lot of consideration to the physiological and psychological differences between men and women. Because we have the capacity for reason and ethical judgments, we need to look at behavioral mechanisms we&#039;re hard wired for in a morally critical way.

And no, men haven&#039;t evolved &quot;to&quot; do anything. Evolution by means of natural selection is an intrinsically blind process void of direction and intent. It may be that in men there is a psychological mechanism that effects their mate selection inclinations in a way considered conspiratorial or oppressive, but this doesn&#039;t mean that such behavior is necessary or good.

These evolved psychological mechanisms, just like a woman&#039;s ability to bear children, are the result of natural selection acting upon our genes. However, because they are naturally occurring does not mean we can infer that they are good or proper. To do so would be to commit the naturalistic  fallacy.

Not only are these evolved traits without moral authority, but they do not define our behavior. As self-aware and rational creatures, our actions may be influenced by these psychological mechanisms, but they are not determined by them. We have the ability, and Kantian ethicists would argue, a moral imperative to use reason and ethical systems to determine how we act.

I assume that by &quot;getting emotional about how bad oppressors men are is irrelevant&quot; you mean that opinions and moral judgments about the way most men treat women are irrelevant. Being &quot;emotional&quot; about the oppression of others is not only an expression of empathy (another trait we&#039;re wired for) but it&#039;s morally considerate. I don&#039;t know about you, but I think living in a society with ethical systems built upon the critical examination of behavior is pretty nice.

Thanks for commenting, now go try to excuse your misogynist bullshit somewhere else.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the physiological differences between men and women are pretty well documented, and at this point don&#8217;t really need to be reestablished. Nobody is going to challenge or dismiss the fact that women give birth and men&nbsp;don&#8217;t.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not suggesting that these differences are irrelevant, or that we should pay no attention to them. In fact, I think we should give a lot of consideration to the physiological and psychological differences between men and women. Because we have the capacity for reason and ethical judgments, we need to look at behavioral mechanisms we&#8217;re hard wired for in a morally critical&nbsp;way.</p>
<p>And no, men haven&#8217;t evolved &#8220;to&#8221; do anything. Evolution by means of natural selection is an intrinsically blind process void of direction and intent. It may be that in men there is a psychological mechanism that effects their mate selection inclinations in a way considered conspiratorial or oppressive, but this doesn&#8217;t mean that such behavior is necessary or&nbsp;good.</p>
<p>These evolved psychological mechanisms, just like a woman&#8217;s ability to bear children, are the result of natural selection acting upon our genes. However, because they are naturally occurring does not mean we can infer that they are good or proper. To do so would be to commit the naturalistic&nbsp;fallacy.</p>
<p>Not only are these evolved traits without moral authority, but they do not define our behavior. As self-aware and rational creatures, our actions may be influenced by these psychological mechanisms, but they are not determined by them. We have the ability, and Kantian ethicists would argue, a moral imperative to use reason and ethical systems to determine how we&nbsp;act.</p>
<p>I assume that by &#8220;getting emotional about how bad oppressors men are is irrelevant&#8221; you mean that opinions and moral judgments about the way most men treat women are irrelevant. Being &#8220;emotional&#8221; about the oppression of others is not only an expression of empathy (another trait we&#8217;re wired for) but it&#8217;s morally considerate. I don&#8217;t know about you, but I think living in a society with ethical systems built upon the critical examination of behavior is pretty&nbsp;nice.</p>
<p>Thanks for commenting, now go try to excuse your misogynist bullshit somewhere&nbsp;else.</p>
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		<title>By: s keita</title>
		<link>http://meatmachine.info/blog/2008/04/evolutionary-psychology-feminism-and-the-naturalist-fallacy/comment-page-1/#comment-108</link>
		<dc:creator>s keita</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2008 11:16:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meatmachine.info/blog/?p=424#comment-108</guid>
		<description>What we need to establish is whether there are differences between men &amp; women. I can think of 2 important ones.

1) women give birth. Dismissing this as being unimportant compared to having a career does not prove that giving birth doesn&#039;t matter.

2) men supposedly have evolved to conspire against women. Women are the helpless victims. If this is true this is an important difference, getting emotional about how bad oppressors men are is irrelevant.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What we need to establish is whether there are differences between men <span class="amp">&amp;</span> women. I can think of 2 important&nbsp;ones.</p>
<p>1) women give birth. Dismissing this as being unimportant compared to having a career does not prove that giving birth doesn&#8217;t&nbsp;matter.</p>
<p>2) men supposedly have evolved to conspire against women. Women are the helpless victims. If this is true this is an important difference, getting emotional about how bad oppressors men are is&nbsp;irrelevant.</p>
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		<title>By: Diana</title>
		<link>http://meatmachine.info/blog/2008/04/evolutionary-psychology-feminism-and-the-naturalist-fallacy/comment-page-1/#comment-109</link>
		<dc:creator>Diana</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Apr 2008 01:00:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://meatmachine.info/blog/?p=424#comment-109</guid>
		<description>My experience with evolutionary psychology was mostly hearing evolutionary justifications for the stupid things men and women do (like cheat on their partners). Because of that I didn&#039;t like evolutionary psychology. I didn&#039;t buy into the idea that we evolved that way, so now we just have to put up with it. Thank you for so eloquently differentiating evolutionary psychology from oppressive interpretations of it. And noting that even if we evolved some way because of choices we make, we can continue to make choices about how we act. Your mind Jono, it&#039;s such a good one!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My experience with evolutionary psychology was mostly hearing evolutionary justifications for the stupid things men and women do (like cheat on their partners). Because of that I didn&#8217;t like evolutionary psychology. I didn&#8217;t buy into the idea that we evolved that way, so now we just have to put up with it. Thank you for so eloquently differentiating evolutionary psychology from oppressive interpretations of it. And noting that even if we evolved some way because of choices we make, we can continue to make choices about how we act. Your mind Jono, it&#8217;s such a good&nbsp;one!</p>
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